WGU Alumni Podcast
WGU’s alumni network now has more than 400,000 graduates living in all 50 states. The WGU alumni podcast highlights the incredible work that our alumni are doing in their local communities. We also share benefits, perks, resources and partner information to help our graduates stay engaged and get the most out of the alumni community.
WGU Alumni Podcast
From Marketing to Math Class: Steve Sandberg’s Career Change Story
After nearly two decades in marketing, Steve Sandberg felt a quiet pull toward something more meaningful. What began as curiosity became action and that ultimately led him to a high school math classroom.
In this episode of the WGU Alumni podcast, Steve shares how he walked away from a comfortable career to earn his master’s in secondary math education at WGU, navigating licensure requirements, pandemic disruptions, and the uncertainty of a mid-career pivot. Within days of graduating, he landed a teaching role at an alternative high school, where smaller classes and one-to-one instruction give students a real second chance to finish strong.
If you’ve ever wondered whether it’s too late to change direction, Steve’s inspiring story is a reminder that it’s never too late to choose purpose.
Hey everybody, welcome back to the WGU Alumni Podcast. My name is Jeff Burton. I'm the senior manager of alumni engagement here at WGU. Now, this season on the podcast, we are talking with graduates who have discovered it's never too late to go back to school to invest in their futures. And that includes career changers, individuals who are changing courses to go after what they are truly passionate about. And the result, they're making major impact within their communities and within their chosen professions. Today we are joined in studio by Steve Sandberg. Steve had a major career change. After working 20 years in marketing, he enrolled at WGU's Masters of Mathematics education program. And now, Steve, you're a math teacher. I am a math teacher.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you. I'm happy to be here talking about it.
SPEAKER_00:Well, thank you for the time today, and I'm excited to jump into your journey. And so, right there, walk us through a little bit about this career change and maybe what prompted it and and how it's gone.
SPEAKER_01:As I was working through my degree in the University of Utah, my bachelor's degree in mathematics, I got a job doing marketing. And then when I graduated from the University of Utah, I just kept that job and I kept working doing marketing. Um, but at some point I decided I didn't like it, other than mostly just the analytics, looking at data. Uh, but marketing wasn't doing it for me. I did not enjoy going to work every day. I didn't enjoy the job I had. I didn't enjoy the products I was producing, and so I quit a little bit abruptly.
SPEAKER_00:Was there anything holding you back from doing that sooner, making that career change?
SPEAKER_01:Aaron Powell, you know what? It was uh it was complacency. And I just I got in a in a in a groove, kind of in, I guess in a rut a little bit in my life, and and I just didn't think about doing anything else, and I just got somewhat comfortable in where I was until I kind of hit a breaking point one day. And there was a little bit of time where I wasn't sure what I was gonna do after I quit my job. And it was kind of neat. My my wife mentioned, she said, well, didn't you, you know, hadn't we always thought that you'd end up as a math teacher? And it was like something kind of clicked. And I was like, you know what? I kind of had forgotten that. That yes, I kind of thought maybe I would end up as a math teacher someday. Let's let's do that now.
SPEAKER_00:What a scary decision to make. I mean, what what did that look like for you?
SPEAKER_01:It was. It was a little bit uh it was a little bit nerve-wracking. I was a little bit unsure. Well, I was very unsure about what was going to happen and um, you know, how it was gonna work out. So it was a little bit fearful. Um, but once we decided, hey, let's, you know, pursue a career as a math teacher, let's do this right. And I said, well, okay, then I'm gonna get my master's degree and I want a good program that will get me what I need. And I actually talked to the state of Utah about licensure and what I need. And I mentioned the WGU program. And they said, yes, that is exactly that. If you want to teach high school math, which I did, this is the program that will work for you. And then once I had that kind of zoned in, then I didn't really waver from there. I was like, okay, I'm gonna get my master's in teaching, math education, secondary, so I can teach high school math, and and you know, that's where I've gone from there.
SPEAKER_00:That's cool. Now you mentioned a second ago about it clicking when you made that decision. But how about once you were in your program, you were a little bit further uh, you know, down the path. Was there a moment that just clicked and you were like, yes, I I'm doing this and I and I'm glad I'm doing it.
SPEAKER_01:You know what? The more as I was taking education classes, I found that I just really enjoyed learning. And this was all something new to me. I had the math I knew, the math I was pretty good with. But the education part was brand new to me, and I realized how much I liked learning and how much I enjoyed higher learning and uh learning more about learning and about education. And so as I did that then there wasn't a point necessarily, but it just built gradually. I was like, oh, I like this, oh, I like this theory, oh, I like this technique or this direction of education.
SPEAKER_00:Aaron Powell Was there something, Steve, unexpected that you gained along the way after making this career change?
SPEAKER_01:Aaron Powell When I was doing marketing, I was not really committing myself to it. And I wasn't um really full into it. And then, you know, going back to school, it was not easy. It was hard. And the only way I could do it was to really commit to it, and I did that. And I did it, I think I did it well, and that made me feel good about myself. And it's like, wow, I can I can really recommit myself to something that that I was brand new to me and that I had that in me, and that felt good.
SPEAKER_00:What was that like for you? When did you enroll? And kind of what what was the the journey like?
SPEAKER_01:So I enrolled in February of 2020, which it was a which is a notable time for many people. And it was it worked out really well for me. So um I enrolled in February 2020 and uh just started taking my classes right away. And uh it was and it I could kind of go at my own pace, is is what worked out well. But the uh and I'm sure people remember shortly after in beginning of March 2020 or end of February 2020, things started shutting down. And it worked out for me well because my schooling just kept on doing what it was doing. I was taking online classes, I was working through the material uh at my pace in the evenings, and there was no bumps, no hiccups. I just kept on learning, kept working through my classes as the rest of the world shut down, and I instead of you know making sourdough or adopting a pet, I really got ahead into my studies.
SPEAKER_00:So when you completed your degree, what did that feel like for you? Kind of walked me through that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I remember I was sitting in in the bedroom, in my bedroom with my laptop and you know, waiting for everything to finally I submitted all my work, just waiting for that the little confetti that pops up on the screen. And I I saw it there and I just uh it was like it was I was kind of giddy, kind of a a rush of relief and excitement, and I was a little bit shaky and went and told my family, and they were excited, and I was excited. It was just real excitement.
SPEAKER_00:That's cool. Okay, so you've completed the degree and now fast forward to entering your own classroom for the first time. What was that like for you? Describe that to me.
SPEAKER_01:Having my own classroom was great. So I did some, well, I did student teaching as part of the program, and I'd done some substitute teaching as well to kind of prepare myself for teenagers. Um and so I was really excited to get my own classroom, to decorate it the way I want to, to find my art and to find, you know, set up my desks and all of that. And I had a very short turnaround. So I graduated in in January of 2022, and I had my job also in January of 2022. So I graduated, I interviewed before I had graduated. And the reason why is uh at the school district I work in, Granite School District, they uh were hiring math teachers in the middle of the school year, which other school districts often do all of their hiding or hiring at the end of school year. But granite school district reached out and said, hey, we've got some math positions. Um, we know you're finishing your degree, will you interview for some of them? And I wasn't sure how hard it was going to be to get a job. And it turns out with a master's in math, there it wasn't very hard at all. There are a lot of, there's a lot of a need for math teachers around here. Um so I interviewed a few places and uh and accepted one of the one of the uh positions that was offered to me. And so it was maybe a couple days after I had officially graduated and my licensure was accepted by the state of Utah that I was teaching in my own classroom. And so I had uh I had less than a week to set up what I was going to be teaching, and so it happened quickly. And I didn't have a lot of time to be very nervous, but having students come into my classroom for the first time was exciting. It felt uh natural, it felt like I was where I wanted to be. I was I was so happy to see these students come into my classroom. And you know, for them, I was just another teacher, they're working through their day. But for me, I was just elated to have them there in my room, learning what I had to impart to them.
SPEAKER_00:Now you're in an alternative high school. Describe for those not familiar with this uh model, kind of what that environment looks like.
SPEAKER_01:Uh certainly. So the it's a public high school in Salt Lake City that uh helps students who are credit deficient. So students who uh need a little bit of extra help to graduate. Maybe they a lot for a lot of reasons. So you know, we have students who come there for all sorts of different reasons, but they all need a little bit of extra help to graduate. They're all a little bit behind on their credits. Maybe uh we have a lot of students that you know had a hard time with online learning during COVID or have a hard line with a hard time with a very traditional classroom experience that you know it's just not it isn't for everyone. And so people get behind on their credits, and they so they come to uh my school where we can help them a little bit more closely. Um we focus a little bit more on their learning and less on extracurricular activities. And we have smaller class sizes, so there's more one-on-one instruction, and so many students just fare better with that, especially in math. And so um, it's been great working in an alternative school, just having some flexibility and just dealing with students that are it's kind of a lot of for a lot of them, it's their last uh last effort, you know, last attempt. They've renewed their interest in graduating, and that's what they're working towards.
SPEAKER_00:That's cool. All right, I promised you we're gonna geek out on the podcast, so we've come to that moment. I want to know what your favorite math lesson topic or angle is. What do you geek out about when it comes to teaching math?
SPEAKER_01:So I almost everything I teach, I just I geek out about and I get really excited about, and I hope that passion comes through to my students. Um, and I'm sure it does, but some of my lessons I think are are just so interesting and exciting. Um particularly one about the Monty Hall problem, because I teach a lot of probability because I love probability.
SPEAKER_00:Say that again.
SPEAKER_01:So the Monty Hall problem.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Probably you're not familiar with the Monty Hall problem. All right, let me walk you through the scenario. So originally it was a game show, and the host of the game show was a guy named Monty Hall back in the 70s, I believe. And the way the the way the game show works is at the end, the contestant is on stage and there's three doors in front of them. All right. Behind one of the doors is the grand prize, a new car. Behind the other two doors are dud prizes. And originally I think they were goats. Uh, maybe they're still goats, because the game show is still on the air. Um, not with Money Hall, but it's still on the air. So the the guest picks a door. The contestant picks one of the doors. They don't know where the car is. They'd like to win the car, so they pick one of the three doors. Now, before the door is opened, the host of the game show, Monty Hall, will open one of the other two doors, always revealing a goat. Never he's never gonna open the car door. He'll open one of the other two doors to reveal a goat. And now here's where again says interesting. The host says, Okay, well, you've picked your door. Before I open it, would you like to switch your pick to the other unopened door? Or do you like to keep your original pick? And that's the question. And if you want to win the car, the question is, what do you do? Do you keep your original pick? Do you switch to the other unopened door? Or does it not even matter?
SPEAKER_00:At this point, you have a 50-50 shot, right? You've eliminated the one. You've eliminated the one. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:So that's where the probability or interesting probability comes in. What would you do? Would you keep your original pick or would you switch to the other open? You gotta stick with your go with your gut. You gotta go with your gut. That is, statistically speaking, the worst choice. Doesn't surprise me. But that's what the vast majority of people do, is they stick with their gut. They're like, I feel good about that door. It's 50-50 at this point, it's one of the two, but it's not. So the probability works out that you have a two-thirds chance of winning the car if you switch your pick. And there's some fascinating probability behind why it works, but and there's a lot of different ways to think about it. But students are often and adults, and lots of people, they hear that problem and and they can't wrap their head around. And it has a good history because uh it comes up every now and then, and math teachers love it because it's counterintuitive and it's and it kind of throws people. But basically, yeah, if the if you if you picked the original door correct, if you picked the car correct the first time, then you you have a one out of three chance, right? But if you picked it, then you have a two-thirds chance that it's in the other two doors. Well, all of those two-thirds chants go to the other unopened door as soon as the host opens that one that doesn't have the car behind it. So we diagram this so it makes a little more sense and we work it out and it's a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_00:Aaron Powell Do the students get way into it? Because I I mean, for our audience here, I mean we're talking math. Math is boring. Math is right, whatever you want to insert. But like this is intriguing. And I would imagine that your students are like, what's the right answer, right? How do I win this car?
SPEAKER_01:Aaron Powell They they can get really into it, and sometimes they don't. And that's kind of the rub with math, is there's always new ways we're looking to make it uh appeal to students and help them get excited about it. And it is an uphill battle because of years and years of them not being excited about math. And so we uh you know do simulations, we do the games and you know, do the little game show and say, well, what do you do? And say, well, what was your was your original pick? Are we gonna change your mind now? And a lot and say, Oh, yeah, now I now I'm gonna now we run the simulation a hundred times. Uh I I understand and I'm gonna choose my pick. And then sometimes students are like, I don't carry the way, but and I still have my passion. I say, well, look how neat this is. And they're like, yeah, I can I get the credit for the class. Like, well, you did the work, yes. So it's a a really a real mixed bag.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, for sure. So I I love that you're trying to really help students fall in love with math, uh, or at least be okay with math. But my question for you is when, Steve, did you fall in love with math?
SPEAKER_01:Aaron Ross Powell When I took calculus in high school is really when things started clicking for me. And that's when I knew, oh, this is there's a beauty to this. And the problem solving and the it the puzzles behind mathematics just make it to me, just really, really appealed to me. The solving problems and using tools to get answers and coming up with something that I that I had to work through to solve and the challenges behind it.
SPEAKER_00:All right. Uh a pr a personal connection here, if that is okay. So um, full disclosure, Steve and I have known each other since the 1980s. And actually, fun fact is your mom taught me math. And she taught me to tell time, actually. I you probably don't remember this. I'm a couple years older than you, but I would go to your house and your mom would get out these note cards and give me different uh scenarios on on telling time. And I remember when she, uh when I was in elementary school, she would come into our classroom as a volunteer um uh parent. And uh I'll still remember the lesson she taught on uh percentages, I guess it was. She brought in an orange and said, what percentage of this orange is edible? And we as third graders thought we were pretty smart, and we were like a hundred percent. And she's like, so she made us eat the the orange bill to prove. Okay, I guess it is a hundred percent. So did you get uh, you know, the a love of uh math from from your parents, from your mom, from your dad, your brother, who who it kind of helped inspire you in this regard too?
SPEAKER_01:Certainly. My my mom, her degree was in math education, and she didn't have much of a career as a math teacher. She put off her career while she raised us, and then finally got a job teaching when she felt like we were at an age in our life where she could teach and and leave us uh alone during the day. And unfortunately, she didn't have that teaching job very long before she got sick and had to quit. Um, but yes, I got a lot of my love of math from her. My dad's also good at math. My family's uh we we just enjoy math. Um I love that example of her coming into the classroom and teaching about orange, you know, what percentage of the orange can you eat? Because spheres are they're hard to the the size of spheres is hard to wrap your mind around. So to make a guess about something like that and to say, well, I don't know, it's is it, you know, almost all of the orange or all of the orange? And if some a student says all of the orange, well, what if we change the problem then to make the answer correct? So if I say 100% of the orange is edible, well, what does that do to the problem? Well, the problem is, all right, then show me what 100% is. And you know, kind of flipping that idea, there's so much value in, oh, in wrong answers, right? And in the in the not correct answer as a math teacher to say, well, this isn't the the answer that I was looking for. This isn't the traditional answer, but let's make this the right answer. And how does that change the problem? Is a really uh a very creative way of looking at math education.
SPEAKER_00:I want to look forward. Yes. So in the next one to two years, what is something that you professionally are focused on or trying to accomplish?
SPEAKER_01:Uh well, in my career, I want to get more comfortable. I uh I had a teacher I work with who said something just really poignant about teaching, about good teachers. And he said that all good teachers have one thing in common. And what was that? What do all good teachers have in common? I I I don't know. Their love of students or love of the material. I said, no, they've all been teaching for a certain number of years. And it's no teacher feels like they're a great teacher early in their career, right? If it's not that the good teachers are the ones that you're good so you stick around. Sometimes that's the case, but often more often than that, you become good by sticking around and working it out. And so, you know, a professional goal I have is to streamline my lessons, for example. I know it's a maybe not a very interesting answer, but as a teacher, I find so much of it just changes from day to day that if I but but I I work with teachers that have been teaching a long time and they're just so com- they know their lessons, they know them down path. And I am still changing and growing and learning, and I know they are too, but it's kind of at a different level than I am. So I'd like to, in the next year or two, be able to just have my material and just feel good about them and like I know this is what's going to work and make minor adjustments.
SPEAKER_00:That's awesome. How about a personal one? Anything on the on the personal front that you're excited to tackle?
SPEAKER_01:Aaron Powell Well, the great thing about being an educator is I have I have a decent amount of personal time to tackle things. I've gotten into mountain biking lately and I'd love to do a a bigger mountain bike race. Last summer I did a 25-mile, and I think I'm working towards a 50-mile, or you know, things um that I didn't have didn't think that I could devote time to before. I'm like, I I can now, or I'm I'm, you know, I have a goal of I'm gonna hike King's Peak this this summer and I want to do longer hikes and just you know, I've spent the morning working in the yard today because I have this time available to better myself and my family's situation.
SPEAKER_00:Aaron Powell That's awesome. All right, I want you to impart some wisdom. Um, what is a life hack that you have discovered uh as a you know, as an adult learner, as a as a working adult, something like that that's that's made a difference in your life?
SPEAKER_01:I have a hard time knowing what works for other people. You know, I I can tell you what worked for me, and hopefully it'll work for other people, but I don't know other other people's experiences. So as far as life hacks goes, I'm not sure what's universal. What worked for me in my education was um when I realized that that I could do it and that you know I saw the end goal, and I all of a sudden all of the obstacles and all of the roadblocks became things like, oh, well, this I just have to work through this. I don't, I'm I just whatever came up is like, okay, this is the thing I have to work through. So I kept my eye on the end goal where I was headed, and then with just a mindset shift, kind of a sea change in my mindset where whatever comes up to stop that, I work through it. I it doesn't all of a sudden having that hinder me to the point of not finishing what I was working towards was not even an option. I wasn't in the question anymore. So that's what worked for me is just say, well, my mindset is now such that anything that's going to be a hiccup or a roadblock, the only option is, well, what do I do to work through this? And then I just buckle down and and work through that. So work through it.
SPEAKER_00:Very good. What advice would you give to somebody who uh is wondering if it's too late to pursue their dreams?
SPEAKER_01:Aaron Powell It's not too late. Um I remember my speaking of my family, my mom's sister, my aunt, was uh a great math teacher, a really good math teacher. She taught AP calculus, and I was talking to her about how I was gonna start teaching at 41 years old. And I felt a little weird starting as a teacher at 41 years old. She's like, I started at 40, 40, 41 years old as well. I was like, really? I just thought you'd been teaching forever. You're you're so successful with it. You're such a good teacher. I was like, no, I started, you know, I started later. And I was like, oh. And so it's just you know, everyone's on their own journey, everyone's on their own path. And you make your own path. Just whatever your path is, just make that. If you want to do this, head that direction. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I've got some rapid fire questions for you. All right. Are you are you good to be on the hot seat?
SPEAKER_01:I I have I will do my best. I should warn you though that I'm not a good rapid fire uh question answer. Whenever I get a question, I think about it and several things pop into my mind at once, and I work through them. So I will do my best to reduce it to one.
SPEAKER_00:All right. All right, here we go. Um, Steve, are you an early bird or a night owl? Early bird. Uh first thing you do in the morning. Caffeinate. What's one word to describe the moment you completed your WG degree? Uh relief. Favorite late-night study snack? Potato chips. Uh, a quote or a mantra that you live by.
SPEAKER_01:Ooh, I know it's cliche, but I love uh the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time today.
SPEAKER_00:Love that. Uh what's a project still on your bucket list?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, fixing my sprinkler system at my house.
SPEAKER_00:Uh, what makes you proud to be a WGU graduate?
SPEAKER_01:That I can set my mind to something and accomplish it and better my life that way.
SPEAKER_00:Love it. You're off the hot seat. That wasn't too bad.
SPEAKER_01:That wasn't too bad. Now I'd like to review all my answers and refine them.
SPEAKER_00:Awesome. So, Steve, what do you find rewarding about helping others learn?
SPEAKER_01:Uh well, so much. There's there's so much. I'm working with students that um that are that have recommitted to graduating, which is exciting, first of all, that they come to me and I and I often I don't know what's happened, why, why they're in the situation they're in. And and you know, most of the time I don't care. I'm just excited to help them along with their journey. And uh many of these students, they they come to my school and they come to me, and um they've had a miserable experience with school. They just they've dropped out in a lot of cases, they've maybe had issues with substances or fights or something, and they're but they're they've decided again, well, they need to graduate. Either, you know, they've decided or their parents have helped them decide it, or their support system, but somehow they have recommitted to education and seeing them take that second chance and or third chance or fourth chance, fifth chance, and make the most of it. And graduation is just one of my favorite things of my school. The families are just so happy to see these students walk. Some families didn't believe it would ever happen and believe it could ever happen for this individual. And the fact that the teachers and the school and the education system never gave up on them is is great. And some of these students are the first in their family to go to college, some of them are the first in their family to graduate high school, and they're really changing their life for the better. It's a it's an incredible, rewarding experience. And on a personal note, seeing them get, you know, maybe appreciate math maybe for the first time ever, or enjoy it, or just, you know, do it, if nothing else, for maybe the first time ever is really exciting for me, too.
SPEAKER_00:On that note, uh you've got to have an interesting perspective on teaching math and and watching it really sink in for people. In your opinion, is is there something that could be done differently or something that you're trying to bring into the classroom to help people really connect with math in a better way?
SPEAKER_01:I try all sorts of different techniques. Math education, I I know has uh has we've struggled as a as a profession, as math teachers. We've struggled um in so many ways of getting students interested in math, and there are steps that are that are being taken. Um one thing that really helps is when parents are involved. I know when this new math came out, and parents all of a sudden didn't know what was going on anymore. And they say, well, I learned it one way, you know, 30 years ago. Why are they changing it? And and refuse to be flexible with it. So getting parents involved and getting them to be flexible and say, hey, learn it with your students then is going to be a uh one of the best things for them. And then just being creative with the problems and how we approach the problems, like the like the orange example is just a creative way to teach so much about spheres and taking a problem like that and saying, well, think about this for a minute, and then we'll we'll get to the math behind it. But you know, let's joke around with it, let's play with it, you know, play with the math and have fun with it. And I mentioned the notion of you know, taking wrong answers and working with them. So often in math education, we're we're working towards a correct answer. And if we don't get it, then we go back and we see what we did wrong. And there's value in that as well. But there's so much value in working towards an answer. And when I ask my students, you know, a qu a question in class, and I get a wrong answer, I say, I like that answer, here's why, and then I work in, say where the where the answer came from. And taking wrong answers as not you know, incorrect answers, but as opportunities would be is very beneficial. So um these are things that I that I like to incorporate, but uh I know that there are so many better math teachers out there that that I am that are that are doing great, wonderful, creative things with teaching math. And uh I hope that I can take from them as well.
SPEAKER_00:Well, in my opinion, you're a great math teacher, and we're proud to have you in the WGU community representing us so well and and helping inspire the next generation. So thank you for that.
SPEAKER_01:Well, thank you. Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks, Steve. You've got me excited about math again. So well done. Good. Well, thank you for having me. Happy to be here. This has been awesome. And thank you everybody for tuning in to the WGU Alumni Podcast. For more information on all the programs, benefits, and resources available to you. We invite you to visit wgu.eduslash alumni. Thanks for tuning in, and we'll see you next time.