WGU Alumni Podcast
WGU’s alumni network now has more than 350,000 graduates living in all 50 states. The WGU alumni podcast highlights the incredible work that our alumni are doing in their local communities. We also share benefits, perks, resources and partner information to help our graduates stay engaged and get the most out of the alumni community.
WGU Alumni Podcast
From Digging Ditches to Driving Infrastructure: Distinguished Graduate Brian Mueller’s Journey
Chicago public servant Brian Mueller went from digging water lines to leading the team that keeps the city running—and he did it while earning two WGU degrees late at night after his kids went to bed. He shares how a career-altering injury pushed him toward education, how competency-based learning fit a union schedule, and how real-world field experience became the backbone of his leadership style.
Brian’s journey is proof that late-career pivots are possible: 50% higher pay, greater impact, and sons who watched him cross the stage twice. If you’re thinking about your own “not too late” moment, this episode will give you the questions, habits, and mindset to start.
Hey everybody, welcome to the WGU Alumni Podcast. I'm Jeff Burton, the Senior Manager of Alumni Engagement here at WGU. And today we have a special guest, one of our 2025 distinguished graduates, and that's Brian Mueller from Chicago. Now, Brian's story is really, really cool. Brian's career started literally five feet underground, working as a union laborer digging ditches for the city of Chicago, but he didn't stop there. He is now thriving as the assistant commissioner for the Chicago Water Department after a couple degrees from WGU. Brian, I cannot wait for you to share your story with our audience. Welcome to the show. Thanks, Jeff.
SPEAKER_00:It's a pleasure and honor to be here with you today.
SPEAKER_01:So you are from Chicago, which is arguably one of the coolest cities in the country, if not the world. Brian, what's the best thing about being from Chicago?
SPEAKER_00:It's a hard question to answer. So many great things about Chicago. The sports teams are world-class. You have the best uh best beaches, you have navy pear. But uh look at me, the food is the one of the greatest things. You have the best foods from all the world from pizza, tacos, hot dogs, you name it, you got in Chicago.
SPEAKER_01:All right. So, Brian, if I come to town and you're taking me out to dinner, where are you taking me first?
SPEAKER_00:It's a hard sell. You know, it's uh you know, you got Chicago pizzas, you got like Illuminati's, and you got Nota Silvia's, or we can go to Byron's, get a you know, a hot dog with a salad on it, or a Chicago-style dog. Uh, have you ever do you know what Italian beef is? Uh yes, I've had Italian beef, absolutely. Good, because that's uh I think that's where I would probably take somebody because uh growing up in Chicago, a beef, Italian beef is one of the uh staple of your diet. But uh people come in and like, well, what do you mean a beef? Is that what kind of beef is it? I'm like, oh, we gotta teach you.
SPEAKER_01:I love that. Well, maybe I'm gonna take you up on that someday. So, and I want to jump into your story because you you work for the city of Chicago and have had some experience in that. And um, you stated that you truly started five feet underground in your career. Tell me more about that, Brian.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I'm very proud. I was uh I got hired on as a union uh labor uh apprentice, a construction labor. And uh very, very proud to say I started in the ditch and uh you know I was taught there's a right way to excavate, there's a wrong way to excavate, how to how to call in the heavy machineries, how to hand dig the right way and more efficiently. Uh and like I said, just uh it was a great job. It paid very well. Uh when it's 100 degrees out, we're digging in the ditch to get people clean drinking water. And when it's negative 15 degree windshield, we're in the water, stopping a leak to get people clean drinking water. You know, as City of Chicago employees, we do our best to be efficient and get people what they need. Yeah. How long were you in that role? Uh I wasn't there for about seven years before I transitioned. I tested, applied, and tested to a as a laborers estimator, which is uh kind of hard to understand. It's it's basically like a project manager in a sense. I was doing a lot of costing, cost analysis, and assisting on the various projects. Uh, I reported to a deputy commissioner and uh worked in uh various projects, bridging construction with senior management.
SPEAKER_01:So you were there for for quite some time in that role. I'm curious, what's one lesson you learned during that time?
SPEAKER_00:Uh I think one lesson I carried with me is measure twice and cut once. So and that can be applied to everything. And what I mean by that is uh you got a stick of pipe, you measure it, you measure it twice to make sure it's right, you cut it. So construction that applies. But the same thing with anyone in business. Uh, when you about send an email, measure twice. Check the email, reread it. Did I did I spell check? Are my eyes capitalized? That kind of thing. So always, you know, look at your scope and and your objectives. You know, measure twice, cut once. And tell me about your family. All right, so I have I was uh my father was uh probably my biggest role model. He was a union pipe fitter for four over 40 years. Um, and the unique thing about him was he was a pipe fitter, but after he passed, uh going through all his childhood stuff. I saw all his report cards or straight A's. My dad was the happiest man, and the reason why he was happy is because he did he was a pipe fitter, a construction guy because he wanted to be one, not because he had to be one. Uh my mother is an inspirational, she's a very, very independent woman. She owned her own business for many years. Uh, she has some medical things going on now, but she's a great role model for women. She can show us it, you know, in any field. She can she can you know run a boardroom and then come home and make dinner. She's just a great, great mom. This is an inspiration to me to this day. Um, I have two brothers. I was a middle child. Middle child syndrome is real. Uh my little brother John is a pharmacist. Um, and my older brother, George, uh Runsbury's project management and procurement uh for a medical device company. Very nice.
SPEAKER_01:Were you close as a family?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, very close. We we uh we played all we played sports together in the alleys, um, which I don't know if you guys aren't from Chicago land. There's alleys in Chicago, and we played in the alleys, basketball, play football on the streets, and uh we definitely kept each other tough by fighting each other on a daily basis.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. What was the best thing about growing up where you grew up?
SPEAKER_00:Uh just a sense of community. I and I talk about in Chicago, Norwich. Norwich is again, it's right next door to Chicago. Um, the block parties, the you know, you know, everyone's brother and sister, and just you know, everyone watch out for everyone. It was just it's a tight community. The block parties, the taking out going out to eat with uh your brothers and his friends, and it's just it's just a great area for families and families that grow.
SPEAKER_01:That's awesome. I can sense your pride for your family and also your community. That's great to hear. Uh, Brian, so you spent uh a number of years uh doing very demanding, physically and uh mentally demanding work. I'm curious what kind of self-care um you used in practice to be able to deliver and to perform in those roles?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so there, you know, that's a great question. You know, um there's unhealthy things, healthier things. Like I would always have a lot of monster, a lot of caffeine drinks. I think I was known for that, which wasn't the healthiest. But another thing is healthy, my father-in-law, and when I was a laborer, would bring me V8 food drinks because I would keep them in my little cooler and then lunchtime have a healthy, healthy drink versus like a sugar drink, would give you more energy throughout the day, stay hydrated so you wouldn't cramp up. Um, but also another thing is because again, like I mentioned or mentioned earlier, is that we're when you're a water issue, whether it's you know 105 degrees up, we have to dig and excavate, get to that water line and fix it to get people water. If it's negative 15 degree wind channel, there's a leak, we have to go into the water and again stop that leak. So the right, the right gears, you know, something you learn real fast. You know, during during the winter you have layers so you can layer up, and then when you start excavating, you drop a couple layers off. Uh, I know I used firefighter gloves in the winter over like I had real tight gloves, but I wear the firefighter gloves over them because I could touch hot things, cold things, and they were waterproof. Oh wow. Did you ever get injured on the job? Yeah, actually, uh I detached my bicep tendon on. I had to have it surgically repaired back on. And um, that was one of the one of the change it uh agents throw towards me, you know, making wanting to make a change because I was very happy with what I did. I felt very good, like I was helping people get water, I was helping people get new infrastructure, but um, I was making good money. But the bottom line was I realized that you know I've never really been injured before at work before. So when that happened, if that was my back, I wouldn't be able to pick my children up. I wouldn't be able to coach their sports the same way because my arm wasn't the same after the surgery.
SPEAKER_01:So, Brian, our season theme is it's never too late. Was there a defining moment when you realized it wasn't too late for you to invest in yourself?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, there's uh, you know, talk about like change agents, and um, you know, the catalyst to me was uh my two brother-in-laws were looking to go back to school and they did some research and found out about WGU, and they came to me and said, Hey, I think you'd be a great fit too. He's they're like, Oh, you're happy, but I tore my bicep times that needed surgery, and had that been my back, it would have adjusted my life with my boys in a negative way. So uh the catalyst was uh my brother-in-laws who, you know, one was uh uh older than me, one was younger than me, and uh looking at them and saying, Yes, I can do this too.
SPEAKER_01:So, Brian, what were the things that they told you about WGU that would benefit you?
SPEAKER_00:So the the biggest things were uh that going back to school wouldn't have worked for me with the traditional brick and mortar facility school because of the fact that uh I had at the time three boys, you know, now I have four, but at the time I had three boys and had a wife, and I was she was primarily taking care of the boys at home during the day, teaching them how to live, keeping them alive, and I was providing the income. So yeah, I couldn't go part-time and go to school. I couldn't, you know, cut my hours. Also, with the great opportunity I had as a union laborer, I worked 7 to 3:30. I couldn't leave to go to school. So WGU is you go at your own time at your own pace. If you have to study from you know 10 p.m. to 1 a.m., that's what you do. And that's what I did. I got up at five o'clock in the morning, got dressed, showered, got to work, and you know, did a day, came home, uh, took care of my kids, coached their sports, never sacrificed that, hang out with my wife, and then from 10 to 1 o'clock, I uh did my school.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so so you mentioned, I mean, you're you're working full time, you're helping your wife with the with the boys, you're coaching, all of that. What strategies helped you keep going during that a lot of juggling?
SPEAKER_00:Uh the main two things is just you know, time management, being consistent and efficient, and then realizing that you know, uh there's always gonna be sacrifices with time, and you gotta figure out what are your whys? My whys are my important things are my boys and my wife and my nieces and nephews. I wouldn't sacrifice that time, so I had to sacrifice the sleeping time. And I, and then you know, getting three or four hours of sleep a night isn't good, but I knew it was short-term sacrifice for long time long-term results.
SPEAKER_01:Brian, I'm a father as well, and so I understand uh firsthand the importance of setting that example. Talk to me about the example you were hoping to set for your sons.
SPEAKER_00:That's a great question. Uh, I wanted to show them that, you know, even though I was in a spot where it was, you know, I had a great career, I was very proud to be a union laborer and made good money, but I wanted to show them that you can do anything at any point in your life. It's never too late, like we stated earlier. So at 36 or 37, whatever it was, I did choose to go back to school and I made sure that my boys saw me when I graduated as well. I wanted them to know that, hey, and you know, like whatever it was 40 or 41, wherever I walked across the stage after getting my MBA as well. Uh, I wanted my boys to see that to know that it's never too late to change. No matter what you come across in life, you can, you know, change and go the other way if you want to. My brother-in-laws, which I mentioned, were the change catalysts for me as well, both ended up getting MBAs, get taking their WG degree, WGU degrees, getting accepted to doctoral programs, uh, getting doctorates in their respective fields. And not only do they have their normal, you know, nine to five job, but they also are both college adjunct professors as well.
SPEAKER_01:So you were working in that uh union role. Uh you earned two degrees from WGU, and now you're you're in a new role again with Chicago Water, correct? Correct. Chicago Water Management, correct. Um, tell me a little bit about that role. What what what what projects are you working on? And tell me what that looks like.
SPEAKER_00:So there's various projects. There's uh various projects I own and various projects I assist on. Um uh we I work with the lead service line, uh, which is a huge program, change making sure we change out the lead lines to uh the copper lines for clean drinking water. Um I work with there on auditing, uh make sure the numbers are correct, make sure that all the uh data entry is correct, as well as you know, efficiencies, you know. Uh I also work with uh things I take pride in is compliance and safety issues. I directly like that because I was somebody in the ditch. So I understand that there are certain things that sound good on paper, but we have to make sure our guys and girls are safe in the ditch. Um, as well as I bridge department of law, other departments, other stakeholders with our department, as well as you know, People's Gas, uh Comed, uh various companies, uh Badger, USIC, kind of bridge down so we all work together to work more efficiently and create a safer environment for not only for our workers, my co-workers, but also for the residents of the city of Chicago. What do you find meaningful about public service? It's a great question. You know, um, I think that, you know, I really believe in my heart that, you know, we all should get back a little bit. So one of the things that I love about working for the city of Chicago is that, you know, I know that at the end of the day, it, you know, even if I'm working on numbers and efficiencies, I'm being fiscally responsible for our department, which is then it's taxpayer money. So we can then do more for our citizens. We can create more opportunities for people in need. Because the bottom line is you have to have a budget where you can follow. So if we can be more efficient in certain areas, we can we can help other people. And I think that, you know, everyone from volunteer coaching to rescuing dogs, me and my wife and kids did. It's if everyone just gave back a little bit more than they could, a little bit more and stating what they could do, I think we'd be in a much better world.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. Uh, is there someone that you work with, either a boss or a colleague, a peer, that really inspires you in this public service space?
SPEAKER_00:There's a lot of people I can talk about. You know, there's um there's two two aspects of it. You can look up and you can look down or or look across, you know, these three. You know, looking up, you know, um, you know, I don't work with uh commissioner every single day, but you know, the fact that he is the leader, you know, he goes to the events downtown, the mayor's mayor's events, and you know, but he walks by and say, Hey, hi to everyone, not just me, to everyone, he'll talk to you, hey, how you doing? He knows your name. That that's showing that you're working for someone who's a true leader, you know, everything. But and then also looking across, you know, my coworkers, you know, that I work with, I call ourselves call ourselves the mean girls. Uh it's meaning the two when we go for walks and lunches, and we just joke about it because uh again, you know, we we try and work together and and you know communicate how we can help each other on different things. So I might be better in Excel. Um, so I might help, you know, Sam or Candace with Excel's they didn't need help with. On the flip side, they might help me with organization because I have ADHD. So they'll help organize things a little better for me. And it's just is that working together as a team, you know.
SPEAKER_01:What would you say to somebody who wonders if it's too late for them to go after their dreams?
SPEAKER_00:I would just the biggest thing I can say and make it really easy is is you, you know, where were you 20 years ago? Where are you now? Where are you 10 years ago? Where are you now? You know, where would you want to be in 20 years? If in 20 years you're in the same spot, would you be happy or not? If you'd be happy, then fine. Everyone has their own life, and whatever you determine successes, God bless, that's that's your life. You should live your best life. You deserve it. But if you want more, whether it's for you or for your children or for your spouse, then you should go out and get that. Uh, that was the you know, I as a union laborer, I was making great money. I was very happy. But again, I look at my kids and you know, things are expensive, times are changing. So I wanted to give my wife what she deserves and my boys what they deserve. And that's why I went back and said, did it, and I think that everyone else should do it too. It's never too late. It's only too late when you decide it's too late.
SPEAKER_01:Brian, it's been great to have you share your story. I love that you looked at where you were and you wanted to make some changes. You took the endorsement, the recommendation from your brother-in-laws, and you and you went for it. And so I just want to say thank you for for sharing your story with with me and our our alumni audience. I I think there are people likely listening to this that are listening and saying, Yes, I want to follow Brian's example, and and if he did it, so can I, and I'm I'm gonna follow him. So I love that you've shared all of that um with us. So, Brian, I want to ask you a little bit about career development. Uh, yours is again a huge success story. So as you're in the interview process or you're searching for for jobs or talking with hiring managers, how are you able to talk about the skills that you've gained and the successes that you've had successfully to see career advancement?
SPEAKER_00:So I think that like everything in life, you got to kind of look at whether you're going to interviews, you know, what are the same questions they're asking or what are the hard questions they're asking. One of the ones that I got was, you know, various uh interviews, they would say, hey, you went to online school, it was online, and they would you can tell they were kind of uh writing it off. And you know, what I would come back to is just you know the facts, you know, yeah, WGU is accredited and you know it does rate higher than a lot of brick and mortar colleges, and I would reference some through various uh research I've done. But also the fact is like it's going back to computers in the 80s. Not every single person used computers every day in the 80s. You know, now it's 2025, and we can utilize computers to go to school and save time, you know, logistically as well as financially, you know, make drive down that cost, which right now everyone knows talks about college is expensive, but you are worth the investment, but you got to be fiscally responsible. So utilizing a university like WJU that is accredited and does have the weight behind the degree um and can save some money, it is definitely a benefit. So I think you gotta be when you go do those interviews, be ready to answer those questions and have the research to back up the work that you put in.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well said. Uh now I want to look forward for a second, Brian. What's one professional goal you're focused on over the next couple of years?
SPEAKER_00:So that's a great question. So um, you know, I have a few goals. Uh uh, you know, one of the goals I want to do professionally, obviously I want to keep moving up the ladder in the department. Uh, because I as you move up, I believe you can make more and more change, change the culture to be more understanding and respectful to each other, to just being more efficient, more fiscally responsible, that kind of stuff. Um, so I think, you know, I don't know if I have necessarily right now a spot where I say, hey, I want to end up in this spot in five years or two years, but just kind of my my goal is now since I made such a big leap through my career, now it's like, hey, I'm looking at the next goal. How can I master this role? Because I, you know, I'm you're in this role the last couple of years, and how can I then go to the next role? What is the guy ahead of me doing? And what do I need to do to get to that position?
SPEAKER_01:Now, one of the things that I love about my job is I get to talk to people like yourself, Brian, and and other graduates from our four schools, and I get to hear the success that they're having, and it really is inspiring to me as a as a WG graduate myself and also as an employee here in our alumni relations team. And I always love asking this question. I always get a different response, and I want to ask you that same question, and that is what life hack would you say has led to your success? And can you share that with me and with our audience?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I think that the uh the biggest life hack is just I can say there's two really. Uh one is just, you know, uh work as if your boss is watching you or your kids and your wife are watching you, make them proud. So it's just, you know, work your hardest, even when nobody's watching. Make sure you get stuff up done on time and it's within scope. You know, that's a big thing. And second thing is is is it's it's so easy. It's just the golden rule. Treat people the way you want to be treated, treat people with respect. If it's uh this guy who comes by or girl and they they clean your cubicle every day, a scoop and take a change of garbage, say hi, ask them their name, ask them how they're doing. Number one, you'll have more enjoyment when you see them, but also like just treat people the way you want to be treated.
SPEAKER_01:Now I want to pivot and uh I want to introduce a new segment here called From the Nest. And so I've got some rapid fire questions that I'm gonna send your way. You ready for uh some rapid fire? Let's do it, Jeff. Okay, let's do it. Uh Brian, early bird or night owl? Early bird. What's the first thing you do in the morning?
SPEAKER_00:First thing I do in the morning is I drink a cup of coffee and then take a shower. Gotta get started. What's your favorite Chicago sports memory? By far is when the Chicago Club has won the World Series. Uh, I was with my wife at our first home, and I literally went and woke up my son Brian. I think he had only one or two sons of a time and made him watch as they won the World Series go couples.
SPEAKER_01:What's one word to describe the moment you completed your WG degree? Mission complete. How about a quote or a mantra that you live by?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'm gonna quote my father. Uh he always told me, he goes, if you can do it, Brian, just do it. 100%. And then at the end of the day, if it doesn't work out, you know, then it wasn't meant to be. Or, you know, you sleep easy at night because you gave it 100%. There's nothing to be stressed about. It wasn't meant to be.
SPEAKER_01:That's good. How about a favorite late night study snack? Caffeine, Red Bull. How about a project that's still on your bucket list?
SPEAKER_00:Uh, taking my kids to some of the national parks. How about a dream vacation spot? A dream vacation spot is uh being selfish, going taking my wife back to Fiji where we had our honeymoon just to spend some time with her because she does so much for our family. I want to do more for her.
SPEAKER_01:And Brian, what makes you proud to be a night owl and a WGU one?
SPEAKER_00:What makes me proud about being a night owl is the fact that the way the carries behind the degree when I tell people I can be proud of the school I went to, the university I went to. And for my brother-in-laws going on to get doctorates because they accepted through WGU. So I have other in-laws that went on to be nurses. Uh, WGU is a great university, and the weight back behind it is what makes me proud of being a night owl.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, Brian, you're off the hot seat. Nicely done. Uh, you enjoyed what you did. You had a passion, you made a change, uh, as you've uh discussed with us here. What was the best thing about making that change, would you say?
SPEAKER_00:Uh I think the best thing was just being able to complete the task, meaning that, you know, again, you have to really take a step back. And, you know, my wife had faith in me, and you know, it we did it. It wasn't me thing, it was us thing. You know, even though I was the one doing the work. She she watched the kids and made it happen. But you have to remember, I was a construction laborer digging ditches, and then I had this idea that I can go to school. I went first I got my PMP, then I went to school, got my bachelor's, then COVID happened, so not everything's stagnant, and I get my MBA. So then I go transitioned in the process inside work as a labor labor's estimator, inside helping with projects, but I still had this thing idea that I can I can be more, I can provide better for my family. And again, you remember, I'm still technically in a laborer's uh labor's estimator title, and I I want more. So the fact that I got my degrees, completed my degrees with the support of my wife and my family and my kids as my my wise, why I wanted to do it. Um, but then also they to get the position I got, and again, I didn't have any connections. My first day with the city of Chicago being citywide, like Mueller, you work north, me and Sandbank's north, but then they sent me South 100, South 100 Michigan Avenue. I didn't know the city went that far south. So it's like I didn't have anyone telling me, hey, at another role, you you're gonna get this position. You know, it was it was just uh betting on myself, my wife betting on me, doubling down, knowing that I was worth it, and that it wasn't too late that I could make this happen. Even when I went for the interview process for the assistant commissioner, my the deputy commissioner who I reported to, I was hand going through the process, and he openly was like, Don't tell me about it, don't say my name. He's like, You gotta earn it on your own. And I respected that, and you know, it's good because at the end of the day, it's me and my wife. We did this. He was very respectable for me, but he was very honest. And I like that, you know. Anyone can do anything they want. You just gotta take hard work and grind. Never get out worked, never get out hustled.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, that's great. Well, I know good things are coming your way. You've worked hard, you're continue to again invest in yourself, gain the skills necessary. Super, super awesome. Um, Brian, this has been a great interview. And as we conclude and and wrap here today, I'd love to give you the final word.
SPEAKER_00:Awesome. Thank you. I appreciate that, Jeff. Uh, it was a pleasure, you know, being with you today. And I thank you for your time. But one thing I want to leave on is I just definitely want to tell you the reason why I'm doing this is interview, is because I definitely want to help my fellow along or anyone who's on the fence of what they should or shouldn't do. I can't tell you what's best in your personal situation, but I'll say this: you are definitely worth it. You know, you are worth the investment in your time, you're worth the investment, you know, fiscally, uh, because it will pay off. You know, me personally, I've seen about a 50% increase in my pay where I would have been because I invested in myself. My wife bet on me, we bet on me, and we are able to do it. And I'm I'm not a genius, I'm not the smartest man in the room, but I will work the hardest. I will I will follow through, and I will be consistent and efficient. And if you do that, I you know it's all gonna work itself out. You can do it. That's awesome.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you, Brian. My pleasure, Jeff. Thanks for tuning in to the WG Alumni Podcast. For more information about all things WG Alumni, visit WGU.edu slash alumni. Thanks again for tuning in and have a great day. Stay safe, everybody.